PDA

View Full Version : Anyone have any experience with bolt on spacers



_Sasquat_
08-01-2016, 10:19 PM
Anyone here have experience with bolt on spacers like this: http://justjap.com/media/catalog/product/j/j/jjrspacers5stud_20.jpg

I brought my van (1990 Chevy G20) to a shop that does custom wheels for trucks and SUVs. The weight on the brake drum is interfering with the wheel (Cragar SS), so they put a 1/4" spacer in there, however, this allows for fewer threads to be engaged. So the guy suggested a bolt on spacer, which will have longer studs and therefore provide more thread engagement. Initially, he did mount the wheels with shank-style lug nuts, but he said he'd feel more comfortable with longer studs...

I have a few concerns using one of these bolt on spacers, which are 1 1/4" thick:

1) My rear wheels are already 10" wide. I don't want to push them out any further because I think they'll protrude beyond the edge of my flares, and I think that will look dumb. He also said he could add these spacers to the front wheels, but those are 8" wide and pushing them out further will be similar to running wider wheels in the front, which I've read is problematic on the G20

2) I have read bad stories about spacers in general, basically studs snapping and people losing wheels. The guys at the shop have said that could be due to improper installment and a failure to get everything re-torqued properly.

3) Pushing the wheels out an extra 1 1/4" will probably push the wheel off the end of the axle hub, meaning the studs will have to bear the weight of the van. I know Cragar SS wheels are not hub centric (according to Jegs), but won't this make it easier for the studs to snap?

What do you guys think. Anyone here have any experience with these bolt on spacers? Should I go with the bolt on spacer or will the shank-style lugs be fine?

Thanks!

Vanner68
08-01-2016, 10:28 PM
Knock the weight off the drum. Spacers are stupid, ran them on a VW bug (Converted the bolt pattern to Chevy) and got death wobble so bad I could not drive over 35MPH.

m1dadio
08-01-2016, 11:33 PM
What vanner68 said

bolt on spacers are a lost wheel waiting to happen. you have to keep on taking your wheels off and checking the orque on the spacers every cuople weeks or your asking for trouble. donot over torque them or use the wrong nuts because either of those will likely crack them.

jrinaman
08-01-2016, 11:57 PM
why not just get longer studs?

Wookee
08-02-2016, 07:24 AM
REMOVE THE WEIGHTS FROM THE BRAKE DRUMS.......

A wheel like a Crager SS relies one the lug nuts and there shanks along with the special washers that come with the wheels.To correctly mount these wheels
There lug nut shanks use all most all of the wheel stud .
Also to correctly mount this type of wheem the base of the wheel needs to set flat on the brake drum it's self.
After being mounted this style of wheel should be re torqued to manufactures specs..After running them for a bit.
with a spacer in place you WILL NOT get the correct torque needed for this style of wheel.

I take it you might not have the needed tools to remove these weights

_Sasquat_
08-02-2016, 07:56 AM
Thanks, everyone. I will tell them I don't want to use any spacers. The issue is they won't knock off the weight. I asked them to initially and they said it will "compromise the integrity of the brake drum." I'm pretty sure it's not as big of a deal as they're making it out to be since the weights serve the same purpose as weights on a wheel, and sometimes those things fall off... I also suggested just getting a new brake drum that has no weights or weights that sit flush, but they sorta blew off the idea...


@jrinaman (http://www.vcvc.org/member.php?u=1933) He said he couldn't find longer studs \_(ツ)_/


@Wookee (http://www.vcvc.org/member.php?u=361) Where do I find the manufacturer specs? The place I took them to is a Cragar dealer, so they should know, but now I don't know how competent they are since they're trying to get me to use spacers. And you are correct, I don't have the tools or space to do anything. I'm a yuppie living in northern VA who just wanted a cool looking van. I had no idea getting new wheels could be such a pain in the butt.

If anyone here lives in northern VA and wants to help me out, I'll give you money and a case of beer. Seems like shops around here don't want to do things properly :/

Wookee
08-02-2016, 09:20 AM
Because of all the issues coming from the whole DUB wheel craze.
Tire stores will not remove any thing factory from the drums.
The simple fact of the matter is they could be held liable IF some thing happens.
how ever they will sell you a spacer that is NOT the correct way to mount the wheel.
Unfortunately you are in a no win situation..
Now that they are mounted they will not let your return these tires and wheels.

I use 70ft pounds of torque when installing my Crager SS wheels

PM sent

jrinaman
08-02-2016, 01:31 PM
https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/wheel-studs/department/wheels-tires/wheel-stud-thread-size/7-16-20-in-rh?SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending&tw=studs&sw=Wheel%20Studs&N=4294947595%2B4294950865%2B4294915045%2B429490866 6%2B4294829245%2B4294827373%2B4294909390%2B4294909 387

Wookee
08-03-2016, 07:55 AM
You have to watch installing longer wheel studs.
Because the lug nuts have a closed end it will only allow the stud to go down so far on the new wheel stud and stop just like it is tight.
If they do this and are not applying the correct mounting pressure to the wheel it's self then you will have another potential loose wheel situation.

Just like any other type of aftermarket wheel .The CORRECT lug nuts and washers are very important along with nessary to keep your wheels on the van and tight.

Using wheel adapters and spacers you are just asking for potential trouble.

jrinaman
08-03-2016, 09:11 AM
If it was mine, I would of already ground down the weights with a grinder. that being said, the bolt threw 1/4" spacer and longer studs will work if the correct length. like wookie said, it is critical that studs are not too long. allow at least an 1/8" to insure lug doesn't bottom out on stud. the studs stretch slightly when tight. as far as the thicker spacers go, never! as far as that being his best advice, maybe time to start going somewhere else! even if you retorqued spacers several times and had the right hubcentric rings on both the hub to spacer and again between spacer and wheel, you still have issues with being offset so much.

_Sasquat_
08-03-2016, 10:00 AM
as far as that being his best advice, maybe time to start going somewhere else!

Yea, Wookee doesn't live too far from me and said he'd be able to help me out. Lovin' the support!

Vanner68
08-03-2016, 01:03 PM
If it was mine, I would of already ground down the weights with a grinder. that being said, the bolt threw 1/4" spacer and longer studs will work if the correct length. like wookie said, it is critical that studs are not too long. allow at least an 1/8" to insure lug doesn't bottom out on stud. the studs stretch slightly when tight. as far as the thicker spacers go, never! as far as that being his best advice, maybe time to start going somewhere else! even if you retorqued spacers several times and had the right hubcentric rings on both the hub to spacer and again between spacer and wheel, you still have issues with being offset so much.

The spacer is what caused the death wobble on my VW by moving the centerline of the tire too far past the centerline of the axle. Running deep dish wheels up front will do the same thing, jeep owners are very familiar with it.

I try to run zero offset wheels up front on rear wheel drive cars and trucks.

Leroy Jackson
08-03-2016, 08:53 PM
The spacer is what caused the death wobble on my VW by moving the centerline of the tire too far past the centerline of the axle. Running deep dish wheels up front will do the same thing, jeep owners are very familiar with it.

I try to run zero offset wheels up front on rear wheel drive cars and trucks.

That is true.

My Jeep has deep offset rims to clear the tall and wide tires I stuffed on it. I had real bad death wobble. The cure was a conversion of the front steering links to a crossover link instead of the factory y bar and careful adjustment of the pitman arm to get the drag link and track bar angles to match. The double heavy duty dampers were also key as a band aid to ensure any play that develops does not lead to death wobble and offset ball joints to correct the castor angle due to a suspension lift.

And it isn't a misnomer.

Death wobble is exactly as the name suggests. The whole front end gets into a resonate frequency vibration and the jeep literally wobbles to death.

The 1st and second gen chevy vans do not have a track bar, but the drag link runs parallel to the leaf springs. If the pitman arm off the steering box is not set correctly, a lot of bump steer can occur, though death wobble on the chevy setup is rare regardless of how much offset you put on the wheels, something needs to be seriously out of whack like worn rod ends, bad toe adjustment, worn or loose leaf spring and shackles mounts..ect. The more offset on the front wheels, the more the van will want to "dart" left and right when you hit bumps or other irregularities. Adding shims to adjust the caster angle can reduce this to a point, but what I found out from experience is just like Vanner 68 said, run as close to zero offset on the front wheels as possible on a factory I beam setup.

I noticed a night and day difference when I changed rims on my van from deep offset rims to fit 13 inch wide tires, to a zero offset rims for 10 inch wide tires. I had to go down to a 26 inch diameter tire in order to maintain a good turning radius, but if I modify my drag link and sway bars, I could get a bit taller tire stuffed under there...but that's work for later...

I do disagree with spacers being a lost wheel waiting to happen...I run spacers on my rear axle to allow my tires to clear the leaf springs. A lot of desert race trucks, heavy duty pick-ups and semis run wheel spaces without any problems. The key is to get a quality product that is designed to fit the application correctly. Those cheapy Mr. Gasket Pep boy special spacers you see at your local auto parts store is a lost wheel waiting to happen, that much I do agree with.

Vanner68
08-03-2016, 09:23 PM
These are the spacers the OP is referring to

http://justjap.com/media/catalog/product/j/j/jjrspacers5stud_20.jpg

The studs are pressed into aluminum...... I am not 'impressed' by these at all.

Longer studs that pass thru a spacer would be better, but I still don't think those are a good idea with a deep offset wheel. I have seen them used on off road trucks for spring clearance, but the wheels themselves were zero offset or near to it.

Compounding the issue is the OP is running Cragar SS wheels, which require the long shank lug nut and special washer, and are not hub centric.


After years of running aluminum aftermarket wheels, I have come back to running stock-ish wheels on most of my vehicles just to avoid these issues. I am running Cragar SS wheels on my 83 G10, but they are zero offset 7" wide all the way around.

Wookee
08-04-2016, 09:32 AM
Multiple (more than 5), larger diameter lug nut studs.Also make a big difference when it comes to spacers.....

Vantasia
08-05-2016, 08:11 AM
Thanks, everyone. I will tell them I don't want to use any spacers. The issue is they won't knock off the weight. I asked them to initially and they said it will "compromise the integrity of the brake drum." I'm pretty sure it's not as big of a deal as they're making it out to be since the weights serve the same purpose as weights on a wheel, and sometimes those things fall off... I also suggested just getting a new brake drum that has no weights or weights that sit flush, but they sorta blew off the idea...


@jrinaman (http://www.vcvc.org/member.php?u=1933) He said he couldn't find longer studs \_(ツ)_/


@Wookee (http://www.vcvc.org/member.php?u=361) Where do I find the manufacturer specs? The place I took them to is a Cragar dealer, so they should know, but now I don't know how competent they are since they're trying to get me to use spacers. And you are correct, I don't have the tools or space to do anything. I'm a yuppie living in northern VA who just wanted a cool looking van. I had no idea getting new wheels could be such a pain in the butt.

If anyone here lives in northern VA and wants to help me out, I'll give you money and a case of beer. Seems like shops around here don't want to do things properly :/

If you had the tools, just grind the weights down until they clear, the balance won't be that far off to make a difference. Plus after the wheels are mounted, go to a tire shop that has an on-car balancer that will compensate for the drum if its out of balance...they use them for a lot of high end front wheel drive cars, ask around. Surprised you are having trouble, I mounted Cragar SS on my van once and many others have and no one has ever mentioned this problem with the weight on GM drums hitting the wheels, they should be in a recess and usually the edge of the drum is in the area behind the spokes, not the wheel hub. You may have after market drums, maybe all you need to do is get a good set of OEM drums like from Rook Auto and check if the weights are flush, they should be...or maybe just consider different wheels, there are plenty other nice looking mags out there like AM Racing, etc...