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View Full Version : what are the rarest of year vans from 1964 too 1970



Bear
09-22-2016, 02:25 PM
anybody know ?

smiley
09-22-2016, 03:06 PM
The 1970 models are the most rare, since it was a split year with the 3rd gen 1970 models.

kookykrispy
09-22-2016, 03:09 PM
My guess is there are more 2nd gens then there are 1st gens in existance. So 1st gens are more rare? Also since 2nd gen is 1967-1970, so 2nd gens were in production one more year, even though 70 was half a year only.

jrinaman
09-22-2016, 04:44 PM
their are panels, display, sportvan and the no door. the no door is the rarest and haven't seen as many displays as the others. just going by year alone, probably a '64. always see more 2nd gen than first and seems like more '66's than the other years. no data or statistics, just what I have observed.

Dan Wilson
09-22-2016, 05:57 PM
My first thoughts are a 1964 GMC would be a rare bird but without solid numbers production figures I'm sure there is room for argument. It is interesting to note that Chevrolet was producing the Corvair Van in 1964 and 1965. How this plays into the production of the 64-5 "1st gens" year models is unclear to me. With the introduction of the Sportvan in '65 it would be pretty clear the 1st gen van was the replacement for the rear engine Corvairs.
I have never been clear on why the 1964-66 are considered "1st gens" in the first place when clearly Chevrolet was already producing a forward control van before ours came out.

According to wiki it has something do with being the 1st G series but it also refers to our vans being "cab over". Either way both the Corvair and 1st gen vans and both are forward control. Cab over and forward control are essential the same thing. Considering Ford was already producing the Econoline in 1961 I would argue the 1964-6 vans should be officially be renamed 'Flat-Windows'. Sounds cooler and this style of vans had the first full flat window unlike the Dodge which was split. I believe this includes all vans of all make including step vans and imports (cough) I say run with it. I'll leave it up to the '67-70 vanners to come up with something cool for their style of van.

I found this: Cab-over, also known as Cab Over Engine (COE), cab forward (U.S. English), or forward control (British English), is a body style of truck, bus, or van that has a vertical front, "flat face" or a semi-hood, with the cab of the truck sitting above (or forward of) the front axle.


Just my 2 cents

Vanner68
09-22-2016, 07:18 PM
The 1st gen / 2nd gen designation is reserved for front engine, rear drive.

The Corvan was rear engine/ rear drive, a completely different design

digz
09-22-2016, 07:46 PM
30724
The accuracy of this I think has been questioned. Pretty sure it comes from the GM Heritage site. Sorry I can not seem to figure a way to make it larger here.

Dan Wilson
09-22-2016, 10:17 PM
The 1st gen / 2nd gen designation is reserved for front engine, rear drive.

The Corvan was rear engine/ rear drive, a completely different design


Well yeah, of course the Corvair Van is different. But it's also still a VAN. I could only find that our vans are called "first gen" due to being a G series van. It's like the difference between an F-1 and F-100. It's still 'a truck' but with an all new design and eventually the new OHV V-8. A whole make over doesn't take away from that fact. In fact one might argue the Corvan was a unique design based on prototypes from the 50's whereas the 1st gen van was a knee jerk reaction with a hurried answer to the Econoline using many parts already in production or modified from other designs. Not taking away from our vans at all it just seems like calling it first generation is a misnomer due to it not being a first generation van so much as seeing the Corvan didn't fill the bill and something had to happen to be completive with Ford and Dodge. Obviously, a new look as well as new mechanicals had to be accompanied by a new name but certainly nothing new when you think about it. Just sayin'. Also I like flatwindow better lol.

Vanner68
09-23-2016, 06:04 AM
Well yeah, of course the Corvair Van is different. But it's also still a VAN. I could only find that our vans are called "first gen" due to being a G series van. It's like the difference between an F-1 and F-100. It's still 'a truck' but with an all new design and eventually the new OHV V-8. A whole make over doesn't take away from that fact. In fact one might argue the Corvan was a unique design based on prototypes from the 50's whereas the 1st gen van was a knee jerk reaction with a hurried answer to the Econoline using many parts already in production or modified from other designs. Not taking away from our vans at all it just seems like calling it first generation is a misnomer due to it not being a first generation van so much as seeing the Corvan didn't fill the bill and something had to happen to be completive with Ford and Dodge. Obviously, a new look as well as new mechanicals had to be accompanied by a new name but certainly nothing new when you think about it. Just sayin'. Also I like flatwindow better lol.

Uh, OK.

lvjjj
09-23-2016, 08:59 AM
The '64 flat window was the first of a completely new design and a new type of vehicle (front engine-rear drive van) so it's properly called a first gen. The only similarity I can think of with the Corvan is that they were both vans, and I don't recall that the basic Corvan body design was ever changed.

However, was a flat window called a first gen. right out of the box? Seems like you wouldn't start distinguishing between generations until significant changes took place to the first one. So, in '67 when the front clip was changed, it was referred to as 2nd gen, and therefore the '64-66 suddenly became a 1st gen.

I have an '08 HHR that were made from 2006-11. The design never changed so there was only one generation, no need to call it first gen. cause there was no 2nd.

digz
09-23-2016, 09:56 AM
Flat glassers sounds cooler.

Vanner68
09-23-2016, 11:10 AM
The '64 flat window was the first of a completely new design and a new type of vehicle (front engine-rear drive van) so it's properly called a first gen. The only similarity I can think of with the Corvan is that they were both vans, and I don't recall that the basic Corvan body design was ever changed.

However, was a flat window called a first gen. right out of the box? Seems like you wouldn't start distinguishing between generations until significant changes took place to the first one. So, in '67 when the front clip was changed, it was referred to as 2nd gen, and therefore the '64-66 suddenly became a 1st gen.

I have an '08 HHR that were made from 2006-11. The design never changed so there was only one generation, no need to call it first gen. cause there was no 2nd.

Only design change on the HHR was in 2009, when they finally put the power window switches where they belonged, in the doors.

lvjjj
09-23-2016, 11:41 AM
Darn, missed it by one year. Always wondered when the General would realize that it was a dumb idea to put said switches on the floor.

It also seems that the '06's used the parking lights for driving lites, then '07 and up started using the headlites?

dfeole
09-23-2016, 12:24 PM
I would say the 67, nodoor, sure it's a gen2 but 1 year only features. What makes it rare? Production #s (http://www.vcvc.org/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=s) , survivors, features? In the collecting world production #s (http://www.vcvc.org/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=s) and build specs have leading factors, however surviors are a direct reflection of production #s (http://www.vcvc.org/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=s) . So following that premis 70 model gmc v8 auto 90 nodoor could be rarest or a 64 with dealer ordered body windows may have lowest production numbers followed by display vans. Also I see fewer gmc models vs Chevrolet. Seems to me the sportsvans have the highest suvivor #s (http://www.vcvc.org/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=s) . Vs production #s (http://www.vcvc.org/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=s) .
There is one rare van, the rust free one!

Vanner68
09-23-2016, 12:39 PM
My 70 no door was a GMC with a 6 cylinder / powerglide, crossflow (V8 style) radiator, and swaybar. It was a fairly high production number, so I figure GM was just using up whatever parts were left laying around by then.

Wookee
09-23-2016, 01:44 PM
I am pretty sure the tern of 1st and 2nd gen was started right here on our forums.
Remember our forums where wide open to the public for many years.
You could come in browse do research and not have to join.

for us it was an easy way to differentiate the two models of vans WE where talking about.

Wikipedia is composed by it's users I have read more than one article on that site that was not exactly correct.
Because there is no real governing body for that site to double check whether all of it's facts are completely true of correct.
There is a good bit of miss information on that site.But hey it's the internet."every thing it true on the internet".......LOL

Yes the Corviar did have a van.However we are not talking or working with Corvair "1776" vans in this site.

1sr gen is just easier to type than Flat glass


Back on the topic of rarest vans.
Remember the display vans where used extensively by the Bell Telephone company each state that had telephone service back in the 60's needed service trucks to maintain these lines ,phones, ect.
Ma bell also ordered Vans from all of the big three van producers,four if you count GMC.In the display van model.
Sears and Montgomery Wards also used this style of van for there service trucks.
Because these where fleet trucks they where pretty used up.Only the strong survived.

Nobody has been able to find out where Ron Duncan found his numbers when he composed the list of production numbers (which appears on the GM heritage site).
Was this list solely a general public list of van sold.
If it included numbers of vans purchased by larger corporations like Ma Bell then the numbers could be on the low side on a few models.

Because the General produced these vans to be used in the work force.It seams as though they never really bothered to keep an accurate count of the van and models of the vans that where sold/produced.

The no side door vans where the base model van.
The inexpensive side doors where a very popular option
the first window vans had windows cut right into the sides of the panel van body.
if i have my facts correct the window frames where not ready for production until the mid 65 model year.
Feel free to correct me if you know a different FACT
The 64 early 65 had a smaller grill opening.

It would be nice to be able to find out provable documented facts on the vans we love so much.
Right now this web site holds the most reliable information about these vans.

All that being said I believe the rarest van would be a 1st gen window van with the flat windows cut into the sides and doors by a dealer/factory at that time.(pre Sport Van)
Gotavandan used to have one of these vans

Dan Wilson
09-23-2016, 04:09 PM
Another thought on rare........ how about complete unmolested camper vans? A Travel Cruiser, Sundial or whatever? With all the neat camping gear and stuff. Now that would be cool. When is the last time you saw an actual Pacific Gas & Electric (or the equivalent) van with all the cool racks? I saw one a long time ago at an auction but it was Ford Econoline. Never seen a Chevy. Then you see ads for the TV vans or Radio Station Vans, business conversion vans from Travelcorp and whatnot. Man, I'd love to see some of these old rigs.
My first van, a '64 was a Sears Delivery van with the optional spot light, B/U lights and an extra window. I found it after I lost the bid on the Econoline. Been a Chevy fan ever since lol.

Vanner68
09-23-2016, 07:23 PM
I would say the early camper vans would be the rarest, due to low production and high rates of attrition.

Rarest of the camper vans would be the Cruise Aire, only 6 built and Taz has 2 of them.

Dan Wilson
09-23-2016, 08:46 PM
I would say the early camper vans would be the rarest, due to low production and high rates of attrition.

Rarest of the camper vans would be the Cruise Aire, only 6 built and @Taz (http://www.vcvc.org/member.php?u=1016) has 2 of them.


No doubt and spot on hands down the rarest of the rare! Does Taz have interior pictures of these beast? Rolling up in one of those at a Vintage Trailer fest would attraction some attention for sure.

Vanner68
09-23-2016, 08:54 PM
No doubt and spot on hands down the rarest of the rare! Does Taz have interior pictures of these beast? Rolling up in one of those at a Vintage Trailer fest would attraction some attention for sure.

The one I have seen in person is complete but rough.

fustkarr
09-23-2016, 09:57 PM
The rareist van...HANDS DOWN......is the one owned by the guy trying to sell it..

dfeole
09-23-2016, 10:02 PM
I am pretty sure the tern of 1st and 2nd gen was started right here on our forums.
Remember our forums where wide open to the public for many years.
You could come in browse do research and not have to join.

for us it was an easy way to differentiate the two models of vans WE where talking about.

Wikipedia is composed by it's users I have read more than one article on that site that was not exactly correct.
Because there is no real governing body for that site to double check whether all of it's facts are completely true of correct.
There is a good bit of miss information on that site.But hey it's the internet."every thing it true on the internet".......LOL

Yes the Corviar did have a van.However we are not talking or working with Corvair "1776" vans in this site.

1sr gen is just easier to type than Flat glass


Back on the topic of rarest vans.
Remember the display vans where used extensively by the Bell Telephone company each state that had telephone service back in the 60's needed service trucks to maintain these lines ,phones, ect.
Ma bell also ordered Vans from all of the big three van producers,four if you count GMC.In the display van model.
Sears and Montgomery Wards also used this style of van for there service trucks.
Because these where fleet trucks they where pretty used up.Only the strong survived.

Nobody has been able to find out where Ron Duncan found his numbers when he composed the list of production numbers (which appears on the GM heritage site).
Was this list solely a general public list of van sold.
If it included numbers of vans purchased by larger corporations like Ma Bell then the numbers could be on the low side on a few models.

Because the General produced these vans to be used in the work force.It seams as though they never really bothered to keep an accurate count of the van and models of the vans that where sold/produced.

The no side door vans where the base model van.
The inexpensive side doors where a very popular option
the first window vans had windows cut right into the sides of the panel van body.
if i have my facts correct the window frames where not ready for production until the mid 65 model year.
Feel free to correct me if you know a different FACT
The 64 early 65 had a smaller grill opening.

It would be nice to be able to find out provable documented facts on the vans we love so much.
Right now this web site holds the most reliable information about these vans.

All that being said I believe the rarest van would be a 1st gen window van with the flat windows cut into the sides and doors by a dealer/factory at that time.(pre Sport Van)
Gotavandan used to have one of these vans

So the 64 with windows cut in with the 4 cylinder camper conversion! We may have a winner.

dfeole
09-24-2016, 09:37 AM
I am pretty sure the tern of 1st and 2nd gen was started right here on our forums.
Remember our forums where wide open to the public for many years.
You could come in browse do research and not have to join.

for us it was an easy way to differentiate the two models of vans WE where talking about.

Wikipedia is composed by it's users I have read more than one article on that site that was not exactly correct.
Because there is no real governing body for that site to double check whether all of it's facts are completely true of correct.
There is a good bit of miss information on that site.But hey it's the internet."every thing it true on the internet".......LOL

Yes the Corviar did have a van.However we are not talking or working with Corvair "1776" vans in this site.

1sr gen is just easier to type than Flat glass


Back on the topic of rarest vans.
Remember the display vans where used extensively by the Bell Telephone company each state that had telephone service back in the 60's needed service trucks to maintain these lines ,phones, ect.
Ma bell also ordered Vans from all of the big three van producers,four if you count GMC.In the display van model.
Sears and Montgomery Wards also used this style of van for there service trucks.
Because these where fleet trucks they where pretty used up.Only the strong survived.

Nobody has been able to find out where Ron Duncan found his numbers when he composed the list of production numbers (which appears on the GM heritage site).
Was this list solely a general public list of van sold.
If it included numbers of vans purchased by larger corporations like Ma Bell then the numbers could be on the low side on a few models.

Because the General produced these vans to be used in the work force.It seams as though they never really bothered to keep an accurate count of the van and models of the vans that where sold/produced.

The no side door vans where the base model van.
The inexpensive side doors where a very popular option
the first window vans had windows cut right into the sides of the panel van body.
if i have my facts correct the window frames where not ready for production until the mid 65 model year.
Feel free to correct me if you know a different FACT
The 64 early 65 had a smaller grill opening.

It would be nice to be able to find out provable documented facts on the vans we love so much.
Right now this web site holds the most reliable information about these vans.

All that being said I believe the rarest van would be a 1st gen window van with the flat windows cut into the sides and doors by a dealer/factory at that time.(pre Sport Van)
Gotavandan used to have one of these vans

1964 gmc factory cut windows!

danno
09-24-2016, 09:44 AM
I am pretty sure the tern of 1st and 2nd gen was started right here on our forums.
Remember our forums where wide open to the public for many years.
You could come in browse do research and not have to join.

for us it was an easy way to differentiate the two models of vans WE where talking about.

Wikipedia is composed by it's users I have read more than one article on that site that was not exactly correct.
Because there is no real governing body for that site to double check whether all of it's facts are completely true of correct.
There is a good bit of miss information on that site.But hey it's the internet."every thing it true on the internet".......LOL

Yes the Corviar did have a van.However we are not talking or working with Corvair "1776" vans in this site.

1sr gen is just easier to type than Flat glass


Back on the topic of rarest vans.
Remember the display vans where used extensively by the Bell Telephone company each state that had telephone service back in the 60's needed service trucks to maintain these lines ,phones, ect.
Ma bell also ordered Vans from all of the big three van producers,four if you count GMC.In the display van model.
Sears and Montgomery Wards also used this style of van for there service trucks.
Because these where fleet trucks they where pretty used up.Only the strong survived.

Nobody has been able to find out where Ron Duncan found his numbers when he composed the list of production numbers (which appears on the GM heritage site).
Was this list solely a general public list of van sold.
If it included numbers of vans purchased by larger corporations like Ma Bell then the numbers could be on the low side on a few models.

Because the General produced these vans to be used in the work force.It seams as though they never really bothered to keep an accurate count of the van and models of the vans that where sold/produced.

The no side door vans where the base model van.
The inexpensive side doors where a very popular option
the first window vans had windows cut right into the sides of the panel van body.
if i have my facts correct the window frames where not ready for production until the mid 65 model year.
Feel free to correct me if you know a different FACT
The 64 early 65 had a smaller grill opening.

It would be nice to be able to find out provable documented facts on the vans we love so much.
Right now this web site holds the most reliable information about these vans.

All that being said I believe the rarest van would be a 1st gen window van with the flat windows cut into the sides and doors by a dealer/factory at that time.(pre Sport Van)
Gotavandan used to have one of these vans
Hated to sell it even though all 44 yrs owned it as 2nd owner ,orig 37k ,and that most people dissed it cause of the pre sportvan cut windows ,I still knew I wouldn't find anything that rare again , but easy come easy go . it didn't own me .

lvjjj
09-24-2016, 10:31 AM
30737

I had these windows cut in, but they sure do look like this stock '64. Does lack the larger rear side window

Vanner68
09-24-2016, 03:50 PM
The rareist van...HANDS DOWN......is the one owned by the guy trying to sell it..

Yep, cuz you won't find another one like it!

gfleduc
09-24-2016, 09:11 PM
...

Nobody has been able to find out where Ron Duncan found his numbers when he composed the list of production numbers (which appears on the GM heritage site).
Was this list solely a general public list of van sold.
If it included numbers of vans purchased by larger corporations like Ma Bell then the numbers could be on the low side on a few models.

Because the General produced these vans to be used in the work force.It seams as though they never really bothered to keep an accurate count of the van and models of the vans that where sold/produced.

...

Looping back on the Wookee's comment - I have been doing some data tracking - Ron's '65 total number has to be low - I have a VIN # record for a van 2300 over the total tabulated for '65's

2
Gary

Bear
09-25-2016, 08:05 AM
I am pretty sure the tern of 1st and 2nd gen was started right here on our forums.
Remember our forums where wide open to the public for many years.
You could come in browse do research and not have to join.

for us it was an easy way to differentiate the two models of vans WE where talking about.

Wikipedia is composed by it's users I have read more than one article on that site that was not exactly correct.
Because there is no real governing body for that site to double check whether all of it's facts are completely true of correct.
There is a good bit of miss information on that site.But hey it's the internet."every thing it true on the internet".......LOL

Yes the Corviar did have a van.However we are not talking or working with Corvair "1776" vans in this site.

1sr gen is just easier to type than Flat glass


Back on the topic of rarest vans.
Remember the display vans where used extensively by the Bell Telephone company each state that had telephone service back in the 60's needed service trucks to maintain these lines ,phones, ect.
Ma bell also ordered Vans from all of the big three van producers,four if you count GMC.In the display van model.
Sears and Montgomery Wards also used this style of van for there service trucks.
Because these where fleet trucks they where pretty used up.Only the strong survived.

Nobody has been able to find out where Ron Duncan found his numbers when he composed the list of production numbers (which appears on the GM heritage site).
Was this list solely a general public list of van sold.
If it included numbers of vans purchased by larger corporations like Ma Bell then the numbers could be on the low side on a few models.

Because the General produced these vans to be used in the work force.It seams as though they never really bothered to keep an accurate count of the van and models of the vans that where sold/produced.

The no side door vans where the base model van.
The inexpensive side doors where a very popular option
the first window vans had windows cut right into the sides of the panel van body.
if i have my facts correct the window frames where not ready for production until the mid 65 model year.
Feel free to correct me if you know a different FACT
The 64 early 65 had a smaller grill opening.

It would be nice to be able to find out provable documented facts on the vans we love so much.
Right now this web site holds the most reliable information about these vans.

All that being said I believe the rarest van would be a 1st gen window van with the flat windows cut into the sides and doors by a dealer/factory at that time.(pre Sport Van)
Gotavandan used to have one of these vans
that was a common practice in 60.s and 1970.s dealer add ons like cutting windows in vans most members are die hard 1th & 2th gen van guys as a kid my dad owened a lot of 3rd gens and as a kid I spent lots of time around them and dealer lots my 1969 108 had dealer windows cut in my side doors that's a hard one too use a gage my 2 cents

Bear
09-25-2016, 08:08 AM
my 1970 90 came with 307 v8 and sway bar and in-molested not cut any where with windows or sun roofs with all this talk of 1970 half years and not too many around may be I should find another donner van too make 4x4 ?

Vanner68
09-25-2016, 11:57 AM
Right now vans in general are rising in value due to hipsters using them as ironic transportation or living quarters.

I really doubt they will ever reach the point where 'numbers matching' and date coded everything is the goal.

Dan Wilson
09-25-2016, 12:48 PM
Yeah you would think but then who knows what the future holds?

Vanner68
09-25-2016, 01:08 PM
Yeah you would think but then who knows what the future holds?

I'm not banking my retirement on it.

I have vans because I enjoy them, I really don't care whether they are 'rare' or 'valuable'.

pan58head
09-25-2016, 07:06 PM
I second that I wish they where worthless to all the real world , that way I could have a dozen or two (evil laugh!!!!!!)

Dan Wilson
09-25-2016, 10:46 PM
I'm not banking my retirement on it.

I have vans because I enjoy them, I really don't care whether they are 'rare' or 'valuable'.

I think we are all in agreement there!

cruzbox
09-26-2016, 05:06 AM
You guys could not be more on the mark, I honestly believe that 99% of the owners of our beloved 1st & 2nd Gen's owned them because they use them and enjoy them not because the market is going up in value.
My 2cents!
Cruzbox

lvjjj
09-26-2016, 09:23 AM
I bought the 65 cause I had specific needs for it, to keep my contractor tools dry as I built houses here in the rainy Pacific NW, and to keep my band equipment dry as I traveled from gig to gig. Also needed a daily driver.

At first I was reluctant to make any changes as I wanted to keep it stock as possible in case I wanted to sell it. Then I realized, it's mine, I need it, I need to customize it to meet my needs and to heck with what a future buyer might think. As I began to use it, I realized that it was way to handy to ever get rid of it. As life has changed, the van has changed with it.

Occassionally I'll buy a newer van or tow vehicle and reluctantly store the early. However, when the newer vehicle would break down or we had to get rid of it, the early was always there, ready to pick up the pieces. When I got back in the driver's seat, I realized how much happier I was when driving.

Vanner68
09-26-2016, 09:39 AM
That's the beauty of these vans, they are simple machines so they either work, or they don't. And if they don't, all you need are basic tools to make them work again.