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Thread: Van Pic + Winter projects as they go

  1. #41
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    B.W. I noticed that . that's funny. Bill

  2. #42
    VCVC Member m1dadio's Avatar
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    Imformation on those brackets wil be great Bill. If there is a set of brackets out there that actually fit then I won't bother doing the work of generating another run of brackets.

    It would be nice to see lots of pictures of your disc brake installation too.

    M1D

  3. #43
    VCVC Member Wookee's Avatar
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    Cool

    M1, I am pretty sure the picture are for a "rear" conversion.........

    .......Wookee

  4. #44
    VCVC Member digz's Avatar
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    The Rightstuff kit for the rear uses a basically flat bracket that is adustable by using supplied shims and only grabs 3 bolts on the axle flange, going by the offset on Bills brackets I had assumed they were for the front also?


  5. #45
    VCVC Member m1dadio's Avatar
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    Thats a nice rear disc set up. I presume they are 10" rotors and the axles have to be machined down to fit them?

    I see those brakets bill is holding and they look to be cut to fit around a king pin. Thats why I belive them to be front brackets. They also appear to have the offset bend in them like my brackets.
    In all of my research I have never found brackets that would fit to the bolt patern on our spindles and I have never found a bracket/disc combo that would fit either.And I did check CCP at the time. Thats partly why I made up the M1D brackets.

    If Bills guy has found a store bought front bracket or set up that works, then lets have the imformation on it.Because I have a list of 8 people wanting me to make brackets but I am holding off for more because it is quite a hastle to deal with fabrication people and mailing and money transfer and all thats involved I would rather not have to deal with it, It really takes alot of time and effort to suplly something like this.

    I would much rather focus my efforts on developing a fix to the low pedal issue when on disc brakes..(which I am convinced is a "geomerty of the early pedal" design issue)

    M1D

    [This message has been edited by m1dadio (edited May 09, 2010).]

    [This message has been edited by m1dadio (edited May 09, 2010).]

  6. #46
    VCVC Member BvrWally's Avatar
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    "I would much rather focus my efforts on developing a fix to the low pedal issue when on disc brakes..(which I am convinced is a "geomerty of the early pedal" design issue)

    M1D"
    I am anxiously awaiting this one as well myself!!!!!!!! Mine's still on the jack stands, till I get the fix figured out!!!
    B.W.

  7. #47
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Guys, When they start on my van believe me I am going to get pics and will have all the info on this set up ,they have room for 4 cars in the back shop where they do the custom work and I am next in line.After they did my rear end and rear brakes they took the front apart and took a ton of measurments so it will be interesting to see the results when they are done. Bill

  8. #48
    VCVC Member digz's Avatar
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    The rotors for the rear are 79 firebird, same as the front conversion. The rotors are chamfered and at first try they look like they fit okay, but the axles need to be machined or filed at the hub to gain what is about .010 to fully seat flat. The only thing I had trouble with, and it was my doing, is when relocating the Ebrake cable mount on the passenger side ( the kit comes with new ones designed for a car)I barely allowed enough slack to remove the caliper from the bracket/ rotor. This also would apply to where to weld the tabs for the brake hose connections on the axle. I dont know if the stock Ebrake cables work with the caddy calipers , mine were gone to start with.Also I relocated the mount because I had clearance issues with the tires and slack cable.

  9. #49
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Gauges are in . Bill

    And the more I thought about the disk brakes bondobill bought a kit and they are on his van and he is driving it often and they work great,I will see him in a few days and see if he will post some info.I think all he had to do was relocate the shock mounts and lower the sway bar. Bill

  10. #50
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Shop hasn't had time to do the disk brakes yet and that's ok by me it's nice out and I have been driving the van every chance I get.Took the bumper and head light rings off and took them to the chrome shop and will have them back in about 4 weeks. Bill

  11. #51
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    bill, just for the heck of it, let me know what it cost to have the various parts plated. i would like to compare quality and cost with the platers from tennessee that i used for the use/benefit of other members.
    the van looks great. john

  12. #52
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    John,You got it this shop has been around for 40 years it's a dump /old school place ,haven't had anything done there for 15 years but I will let you know on the results. My bumper is in in pretty good shape a few dents etc .the price is $325 for the front bumper ,$35 per headlight ring an $15 to do the license plate bracket can't wait to see the results. Bill

  13. #53
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Had to post because I'm kind of excited ,Stopped by the shop as they were about to call me and the van will be at the shop on friday and they start on the disk brakes,dual master cyl,and throttle set up. I will take pics and get parts #s etc on the disk brake brackets. Bill

  14. #54
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    bill, those prices are very close to what it cost me to do the same. the only difference is my front/rear bumpers were $315.00 each. lets see how the quality turns out and maybe we'll have separate east coast and west coast plating options. thanks for the reply. john

  15. #55
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Well I'm hoping the disk brake conversion doesn't take to long the van is at the shop and in some pretty good company ,next to it is a very high dollar custom mustang shelby getting some serious suspention work and a cobra. Bill





  16. #56
    VCVC Member digz's Avatar
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    Hey Bill,, knowing what your van should be able to do stop light to stop light, I'd say they are in good company!

  17. #57
    Certifiable Vanatic bowtied's Avatar
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    Good company for sure, my 2 favorite fords but I'll bet your little chevy has more fun!
    By the way, I spent sat. at woodburn dragstrip and noticed a 67 mustang with cobra taillights across the way. We left a little early to wonder over and it turns out that car was a legit GT500 unrestored numbers car with only 1 repaint in the mid-70's. The owner was simply a kick to talk to, he owns a few classics but likes the little shelby the best, duh!! The entire car shows it's age but that's exactly the attraction. I'll never forget my camera again, promise!

    Jerry


  18. #58
    VCVC Member kookykrispy's Avatar
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    I dig on that factory radio in the dash... looks sharp!

  19. #59
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    I went to the shop and took a couple of pictures ,they have the front end apart and since the van is taking up one of their money making stalls hopefully it won't be to long before the disk brakes are installed.Now I am getting excited. Bill


  20. #60
    VCVC Member 66NO-DICE's Avatar
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    Front brake kit from CPP!!!! I called CPP Tech line and the guy I spoke with put me on hold and went and spoke with the engineer that made this "front disk brake" kit. He told me that he went to the junk yard, found a first gen, took the front spindle back to the shop and now has the capability of mass producing this kit for $499.00. It uses a 1969-72 Chevelle rotor,(GM A body) and a 1982-94 S10 caliper. If you would like to purchase this kit. Call Mario directly at CPP; 800-522-5004 ext 126. It is a new kit and not everyone knows about it at CPP, so call Mario. The pic below of the 4 bolt zinc plated bracket that looks like it will fit our vans....... is what was produced.
    66NO-DICE

  21. #61
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    I did a disk brake install on my van 'bout 20+ years ago...use everything offa 70 Monte Carlo, the disk, the caliper...everything 'cept the inner grease seal {the seal closest to the c/l of the vehicle}..w/a little investigating my guess is a seal is available w/the I.D. of the Monte hub and the O.D. of the G10 spindle..The bearings where the same, and the spacing was the same between the bearings..The only thing i hadda make was the caliper hanger and a ring to adapt the inner grease seal to the Monte hub...I suspect the same bearings are used on alot of GM products.
    Randy

  22. #62
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    66NO-DICE, I wonder if the stuff ordered for my van got them interested in putting a kit together for our vans? Bill

  23. #63
    VCVC Member 66NO-DICE's Avatar
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    Bill,
    I think they made it for your van. Mario at CPP told me that the engineer only made two and there isn't even a kit number yet. So I guess the one they are holding now is the prototype for all the brakets to follow and the set you have must be the first in their production.
    66NO-DICE

  24. #64
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    66NO-DICE,As said earlier in this post the shop doing the brakes are long time friends and do alot of custom work and before ordering anything they disassembled the front and took a bunch of measurements before they ordered anything .So they start assembley in a few days and I will have pics and info as to how it turns out.If all goes well this would be cool for anyone else to just pu the phone and order disk brakes. Bill

  25. #65
    Certifiable Vanatic bowtied's Avatar
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    Probably missed it, but do they have a price in mind for the brackets and/or the kit?

    Jerry

  26. #66
    VCVC Member 66NO-DICE's Avatar
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    $499.00

    quote:
    Originally posted by 66NO-DICE:
    Front brake kit from CPP!!!! I called CPP Tech line and the guy I spoke with put me on hold and went and spoke with the engineer that made this "front disk brake" kit. He told me that he went to the junk yard, found a first gen, took the front spindle back to the shop and now has the capability of mass producing this kit for $499.00. It uses a 1969-72 Chevelle rotor,(GM A body) and a 1982-94 S10 caliper. If you would like to purchase this kit. Call Mario directly at CPP; 800-522-5004 ext 126. It is a new kit and not everyone knows about it at CPP, so call Mario. The pic below of the 4 bolt zinc plated bracket that looks like it will fit our vans....... is what was produced.
    66NO-DICE




  27. #67
    VCVC Member Optik's Avatar
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    thats a pretty good price. Its $800-900 for a disc kit for my Dart.

  28. #68
    Van Addict WDAGUY's Avatar
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    Hey Bill...how did Bondo Bill's disc brakes turn out? He was using a 53 Chevy truck kit as I recall??
    Do these new kits include or reccomend
    master cylinders and proportioning valves??
    My rear kit was easy, front so/so but getting a good pedal was a bear!

  29. #69
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    WDAGUY,bondobills kit worked great he used an adjustable proportioing valve and still has the single master cyl (he's going to change that)the only mod he did was to move the upper shock mount forward a little.I don't know what master cyl they are using (on mine) but I will get all the info the second they are done. Bill

  30. #70
    VCVC Member m1dadio's Avatar
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    So what kit did they use for his front disc brakes?
    Did it fit right on or did they have to do some modifications to the kit parts or his van as well?

    M1D

  31. #71
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Well I swung by the shop today and Things are going nicely .Looks like the stuff they ordered fits very nicely,no shock/mount issues .The steering arm wasn't touching the springs but was close enough they sent it to the machine shop to have a little thickness shaved off to be safe.Getting closer and getting more excited to get back on the road. Bill


  32. #72
    VCVC Member m1dadio's Avatar
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    I looked at using rotors with a simulare "wheel mounting offset" when I was planning the M1D disc brakes.

    One of the items I did not like about the Nova rotors with the BZ brakets was that they moved the wheel mounting surface out 3/8" each side, which in wheel alignment terms is huge. The track width with the Nova rotors becomes 3/4 inch wider. That makes it a little harder steering at slower speeds and reduces "straight line stability" , and the caster and camber angles have to be adjusted to compensate for excess tire wear, It will beat the hell out of the steering box and be hard on outer wheel bearings as most of the load is being transfered there now.

    I wasn't complettly happy with the set up I built because the M1D set up widens the track width by 3/16" by also moving the wheel mounting surface outboard. In front end alignment terms that too is a bunch but is managable. but that was the best I could come up with from a cataloge with the demensins of humdreds of rotors I studied.

    Those rotors that they are putting on you van with that kit are going to ofset the wheel mounting by about 5/8" on each side, thats excessive. You may have to go with a reverse style rim, inset like they do on front wheel drive vehicles in order to bring your tires and front end alignment to within normal limmits.

    Here is those rotors being compaired to the Nova rotors on my kitchen table.Nova rotor on the right.


    You can see they set the whell mounting surface about 1/4" further out then the Nova rotors. That is also shown in your pictures that they have the wheel mounting surface almost directly over the outer wheel bearing. Of course with everything stuck out that much there will be no interfearance with shocks or sway bars but your wheels and tires are going to rub hard on the wheel well lip when turning and will be unreasonable to drive anyway, unless as I said you get custom inset wheels.

    I don't like to be the barrer of bad news but I know about this stuff, I studdied it hard developing a system for these vans.

    I would be interested to hear what your shop does with this.

    M1D

    [This message has been edited by m1dadio (edited July 13, 2010).]

    [This message has been edited by m1dadio (edited July 13, 2010).]

    [This message has been edited by m1dadio (edited July 13, 2010).]

    [This message has been edited by m1dadio (edited July 13, 2010).]

  33. #73
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    M1D,I don't think the tires rubbing will be an issue and since I'm running a 195/65/15 tire on a 6 inch standard offset rims they set inward pretty far . Bill

  34. #74
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    I can't recall if the disk brake conversion i did increased the track but upon looking at the k-table flic it occurs to me that, all things being the same, what really affects the track of the van would be the distance of the wheel mounting face inward to the c/l of the K-pin..Its occurred to me that the wheel bearings are not located at the same distance from {for example} face of the wheel mounting face....EXAMPLE:while maintaining the same center to center distance on the wheel bearings, they could be {the wheel bearings} located 1/4" closer to the wheel locating face..{to say clear a sway bar link thats on the Nova but not on a Chevelle}. So if i havn't lost ya yet, the critical distance is the wheel mounting plane inward to the king pin c/l, not the disk/hub itself....the bearings could be moved inward/outward on the "stock" disk/hub application to accomiadate the models particular "issues"..SO: wake up now, the measurment for track could be made by subtracting the distance from the inner disk brake face to the inner bearing from the O/.A width of the disk/hub...or simply assemble the disk/hub/bearings/spindle/king pin and measure..
    Randy

  35. #75
    VCVC Member m1dadio's Avatar
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    Well Randy you got me all phy R squared now.

    LMAO!!

    I kill me

    Michel

  36. #76
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    M1D,WDAGUY bondobill used a kit for a 59 chev pu worked great as far as modifications he said he moved the shock mount forward a little just to be safe things were a little close. Bill

  37. #77
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Getting closer,master cyl in and the sway bar moved back a little,and the front bumper and head light rings were done at the chrome shop . Bill



  38. #78
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    Dig the chrome rings and bumper! Thanks. vp

  39. #79
    VCVC Member BILLS66's Avatar
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    Thanks VP the shop that does the chroming has been around forever and they did a nice job.If you saw this shop it's like something out of the early 1900's but that's ok the work is great . Bill

  40. #80
    VCVC Member Optik's Avatar
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    VERY nice looking chrome! hows the prices?

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