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Thread: master cylinder and Muncie questions.

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    VCVC Member ctjeff's Avatar
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    master cylinder and Muncie questions.

    Ok so I'm just getting into this 1964 G10, and find myself with an ever growing list, at the top of which is no brakes! I've got a friend thats a mechanic and he feels its the master cylinder bypassing, but due to age, the leaking rear axle seal that soaked the drivers rear brakes, and the thrill of feeling the pedal drop to the floor (luckily while going uphill) I will be replacing everything except the steel lines. So my question is should I just replace what I have or look at upgrading somehow? The van has the single reservoir master cylinder, is there a way to go to a dual reservoir, has it been done before? I have also seen some earlies with disc brakes, anyone have any input on cost and procedures invloved? Or is it best to just get what I've got working?

    Also at the top of the list is the leaking output shaft seal on the Muncie SM318 3 speed. I checked the trans oil and its barely got a half inch in the bottom, I'm not sure how long its been low but it doesn't like to go into 1st or reverse and is very loud. So between that and the non synced 1st gear I'm thinking it may just be best to go to a Saginaw 3 speed. Is there a way to hang them off of the existing top hanger that the Muncie uses, or do I have to go to a cross member?
    Is there a better option than the Sag for a tranny?

    Any guidance is appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Jeff

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    Certifiable Vanatic Leroy Jackson's Avatar
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    If you can afford it. Upgrade. You won't regret it. The non-boosted drum brakes on all 4 tires means constant adjustment and at their best sub-par braking performance on good days. In traffic this can be a real pain because in order to keep enough stopping distance to the car in front of you, invites other drivers to cut in front of you..causing you to have to drive even slower or break into a cold sweat just to keep your place in line. I was pulling weight in a trailer and had forgotten to adjust my brakes. Needless to say I got a good scare on a decent down grade. Had to use engine compression to slow myself down.
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    VCVC Member kookykrispy's Avatar
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    Hey Jeff, welcome to the forum! OK, you can simply replace the factory single master cylinder system, or upgrade to a dual system, or yes, you can even upgrade to front, or all 4 wheel disc brakes if that is what you want. It all depends on how much time and money you want to spend!

    Replacing the factory master cylinder and wheel cylinders are cheap. I suggest you go carefully inspect the hard lines because those can rust from the inside out and they are cheap to replace. Just get the length you need from the parts store and bend to fit. If you cut them down, you'll need a double flare tool for brake lines.

    Alot of guys like to upgrade to the dual master cylinder. 2nd gen vans already have a dual master cylinder. You will need to cut out part of the bracket on your first gen to make a dual master cylinder fit. Also if you have a sway bar, you'll need to space the sway bar down about 1-2 inches from the frame. The idea with the dual system is that it makes for a safer braking system, so if you get a leak in a line, you don't lose all of your braking ability (which is what happens with a single master)

    M1Dadio makes the disc brake brackets. Contact him if you want to go to front disc brakes. Its alot of work, so be prepared. I understand he only has a couple sets of brackets left, so if you want a set, get them now before they are gone.


    All that being said, I have rebuilt the factory single master cylinder system in my '64. I replaced everything (master cylinder, wheel cylinders, hoses, etc), all new except for the steel lines, had the drums turned and used all new brake shoes and replaced all the hard parts (springs, self adjusters, etc) as needed. I drive it daily and at high speeds on the freeway. The factory brakes work fine as long as everything is relatively new and in good condition. My brake system is stock, but 100% rebuilt and it stops well. For my '64 with the 230 inline six, the stock brake system is good enough and I drive it daily.


    On my new '65 that I am building, I did the front disc brake conversion since this new van now has an aluminum head 327 v8. I figured if its gonna haul ass, it had better be able to stop quickly too. It was a LOT of work, but I'm sure the brakes will be better when I am done.


    Transmissions: all original van transmissions had the tailshaft with the hanger that would simply attach with one bolt to the underside of the van. that being said, the van specific transmissions are somewhat rare. IIRC, 1966 was when the saginaw with the synchro'd 1st gear became standard issue... someone else can confirm or deny the sag started in '66. '65 and earlier vans had non-synchronized 1st gear transmissions.

    If you can find a van specific trans, it simply just bolts in (although you'll have to swap to a th350 style yoke on your driveshaft)... otherwise you will have to fabricate a custom transmission mount/crossmember, which is relatively easy to do and alot of guys on here have done it.
    Last edited by kookykrispy; 03-31-2013 at 04:16 PM.



    64' wikivan 292 tripower/4 speed/2.56 posi
    '64 Red Baron no engine/trans
    '66 "Lucky" 230/3 onda tree/project.. soon to be 400SBC/200r/3.73 posi

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    Remember, they're still printing money, but they aren't making any more earlies!

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    if you completely rebuild the system, use silicone brake fluid instead of the regular dot3 stuff. silicone is superior in many ways. i would recommend the m1dadio disc setup with a dual circuit master cylinder if you are so inclined. many here have accomplished this conversion with excellent results.

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    VCVC Member ctjeff's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it. I think we will go to the dual res master and replace everything including the steel lines. I am intereted in the silicone brake fluid, seeing how i am replacing everthing in the brake system it may make sense. I am not ready to jump into the cost of discs yet since I still need to see what shape the tranny is in and chase some engine leaks. If anyone has info on fabing a support for the Saginaw I would love to see the design.

    jeff

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